tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post1432466818506302624..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: A bloodless feast: swine flu and communionbyron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-90879656850481407022010-02-25T14:35:16.409+00:002010-02-25T14:35:16.409+00:00Tony, thanks for clarifying.Tony, thanks for clarifying.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-73403999579543280062010-02-24T22:58:02.049+00:002010-02-24T22:58:02.049+00:00Hi Byron
In response to your "I'm not re...Hi Byron<br /><br />In response to your "I'm not really sure why" - here are some comments from a bishop of the north (when this issue came up in a different context):<br /><br />Those who are ordained have "signed a document at your ordination that you would offer the bread and wine separately."<br /><br />But:<br /><br />"We allow the liberty of the communicant to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-65647562803074201252009-08-19T14:16:48.092+01:002009-08-19T14:16:48.092+01:00Here is an example of why people don't like in...<a href="http://cruciality.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/frederick-buechner-on-%E2%80%98rather-splendid%E2%80%99-symbols/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is an example of why people don't like individual cups of non-alcoholic grape juice. OK, so it's more about the latter than the former, but interesting nonetheless.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-36731460658442395342009-08-19T11:33:45.707+01:002009-08-19T11:33:45.707+01:00Individual cups would be a good solution.
________...Individual cups would be a good solution.<br />___________________<br />Julie<br /><br /><a href="http://iwaayinternetmarketing.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Low and best rates on Payday Loans</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-256867259446903022009-08-13T14:02:35.725+01:002009-08-13T14:02:35.725+01:00"I'm hardly the ABC's greatest critic...<em>"I'm hardly the ABC's greatest critic"</em>: Indeed not, and that's actually one of the reasons I'm giving you a hard time over this. If you were merely one of the usual suspects performing a drive-by, then at a guess I'd either be ignoring the post/blog or taking a real full-blown return shot ... :-)<br /><br />As to the history and current prevalence of Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-85550716165244683432009-08-13T11:04:39.424+01:002009-08-13T11:04:39.424+01:00Bruce - I'm hardly the ABC's greatest crit...Bruce - I'm hardly the ABC's greatest critic. :-)<br /><br />This post was as much a chance to reflect upon my own assumptions as it was a piece of criticism. And really, it was more about questioning (i) than advocating (iii) over (ii). Thanks for continuing the discussion, which is helping me reflect on these matters.<br /><br />Do you know more about the history and current prevalence byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-58214608337789503492009-08-13T05:51:05.477+01:002009-08-13T05:51:05.477+01:00Byron I think your earlier comment, "Sydney A...Byron I think your earlier comment, <em>"Sydney Anglican is really dissenter in tone and ecclesiology, so I guess it is no surprise that we see individual cups as a no-brainer"</em> is relevant here, and it needs to be borne in mind that Sydney is quite peculiar in this matter. <br /><br />Intinction is well-established as an option in the tradition, and in some places and times it'Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-63064566544269014562009-08-12T12:02:50.703+01:002009-08-12T12:02:50.703+01:00PS The BCP rubric says that "the Bread be suc...PS The BCP rubric says that "the Bread be such as is usual to be eaten". I don't usually eat wafers.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-10554628599646381322009-08-12T11:58:33.994+01:002009-08-12T11:58:33.994+01:00Bruce - sorry for not being clearer. Intinction do...Bruce - sorry for not being clearer. Intinction does involve communion in both kinds, yes. Why would I therefore put it as less desirable than individual cups? Good question. Perhaps it is simply my own background and what I am more familiar with. Perhaps there are other aspects of intinction that make me a little less comfortable with it (though none are without good answers, I know). First, byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-73835739829408777992009-08-11T14:29:14.189+01:002009-08-11T14:29:14.189+01:00Byron: you wrote "In my mind, I would say (ii...Byron: you wrote <em>"In my mind, I would say (iii) > (ii) > (i)."</em><br /><br />Pardon me if I'm being dense, but I don't get it.<br /><br />If the symbolism of the common cup — which I most freely agree is important — is the main game here, then intinction would seem to beat individual cups in a straightforward way.<br /><br />And as for receiving communion in both Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-40646373869981159162009-08-10T10:32:04.076+01:002009-08-10T10:32:04.076+01:00Intinction is not banned in Sydney, but it does re...Intinction is not banned in Sydney, but it does require permission from the bishop. I am not really sure why. Though note that in the instructions from the ABC & ABY, that <i>only</i> the presiding minister can intinct (to avoid overintincture - what a marvellous term!).<br /><br />AE - wouldn't it actually <i>reduce</i> the risk of drunk clergy, since the amount of wine required (one byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-47047518182995394772009-08-10T03:53:21.889+01:002009-08-10T03:53:21.889+01:00@ Martin,
as I was once told by someone more knowl...@ Martin,<br />as I was once told by someone more knowledgeable about these matters: banned in Sydney for the president / priest / presbyter to intinct, but not so for the communicant.<br />But if hygeine is the issue, then the problem of 'over-intinction' ('can I really get away with that?) remains...gbroughtohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04835374770367316112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-27949560294787408152009-08-10T02:41:50.739+01:002009-08-10T02:41:50.739+01:00My understanding is that intinction (or rather ...My understanding is that intinction (or rather 'intincture'???) is banned in Sydney. Anyone know why? (or even if it's true?)Martin Kemphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17908454108625787731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-81517062306854875882009-08-10T01:37:58.066+01:002009-08-10T01:37:58.066+01:00Amen. And depending how faithful they are to other...Amen. And depending how faithful they are to other ordinances, does this mean there are a lot of drunk clergy?andrewEhttp://andrewerrington.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-35827348203976323672009-08-09T22:49:38.867+01:002009-08-09T22:49:38.867+01:00Matt, yep, the dipping is called "intinction&...Matt, yep, the dipping is called "intinction" as I mentioned in my post. I guess my point is that it is (a) only given as an option, rather than the norm with the option of only serving one element and (b) it is the only option mentioned (not individual cups, which is another option). To put it another way, I see three ways forward (well four really, with one being just to keep using byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-28132037960546780572009-08-09T05:27:11.873+01:002009-08-09T05:27:11.873+01:00Hey Byron.
If the bread is being dipped in the win...Hey Byron.<br />If the bread is being dipped in the wine, how is that not two elements? They're both there in wine-soaked bread, aren't they?<br /><br />I first experienced this method of taking the Lord's Supper in Uganda, where it was used to avoid passing on disease through saliva to the members of the congregation who are HIV+. Plastic cups weren't an option there, but as youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-89251311941489454442009-08-09T01:07:24.141+01:002009-08-09T01:07:24.141+01:00Found the 42 in O'Donovan's book on the 39...Found the 42 in O'Donovan's book on the 39. As far as I could see, the 42 don't say anything about taking communion in both kinds.Matthew Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00546422699620482793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-66074776819561883302009-08-08T14:23:38.842+01:002009-08-08T14:23:38.842+01:00i am with Matthew. Individual cups would be a good...i am with Matthew. Individual cups would be a good solution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-1317134152803396042009-08-08T13:01:40.469+01:002009-08-08T13:01:40.469+01:00Surely individual cups would be the best option.
...Surely individual cups would be the best option.<br /><br />I can't believe how hard it is to find the Forty-two Articles online...and I can't remember which book compares the 42 and 39 side by side.Matthew Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00546422699620482793noreply@blogger.com