tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post2391198578615704840..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: A riddlebyron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-66832426905162785822008-03-13T06:05:00.000+00:002008-03-13T06:05:00.000+00:00Yep, I also had in mind this quote and this one.Yep, I also had in mind <A HREF="http://nothing-new-under-the-sun.blogspot.com/2008/03/williams-on-our-delusions-of-control.html" REL="nofollow">this quote</A> and <A HREF="http://nothing-new-under-the-sun.blogspot.com/2007/10/williams-on-celebrating-creatureliness.html" REL="nofollow">this one</A>.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-85074745197349625782008-03-13T06:00:00.000+00:002008-03-13T06:00:00.000+00:00Yes, of course. Thanks for the reminder. We can st...Yes, of course. Thanks for the reminder. We can start now — but it's very hard when so much of what we do is set up to be individualistic. The whole legal and economic framework is individualistic. How do we beat that?<BR/><BR/><I>If our broader society is to continue in God's good gift of relative stability, it is going to need to learn some of these lessons, particularly where they have to do Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-36298043722906432212008-03-13T05:26:00.000+00:002008-03-13T05:26:00.000+00:00Craig, they are all great ideas and I entirely agr...Craig, they are all great ideas and I entirely agree (except I still do not think that our hope for the new creation makes our present life illusory in any way. On the contrary, I think it only underscores the reality of this life that God will transform like a seed into a full-blown plant). We buy so many of the assumptions and practices of our culture (particularly when they have to do with byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-30136509349215963762008-03-13T04:48:00.000+00:002008-03-13T04:48:00.000+00:00Thanks Byron and Dave. The reason I used "Illusion...Thanks Byron and Dave. <BR/><BR/>The reason I used "Illusion" to describe death is because often we think of death as being total destruction / annihilation whereas the theology of new heaven and earth shows us that we are a image / illusion of what is to come. <BR/><BR/>One of the ways the church can combat and prepare God's people for the future is to preaching, urging and living out more Craig Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15588042075470456058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-54425346113119272008-03-13T03:09:00.000+00:002008-03-13T03:09:00.000+00:00Excellent points Byron.Also, I don't pretend that ...Excellent points Byron.<BR/><BR/>Also, I don't pretend that the specific solutions I give are theological. The only theology that drives this really is that God has commanded us to love our neighbour, and that He is the Lord of all of life... not just the "religious" bits but the whole package. That means we are to "care for the garden" in a compassionate manner as well. Byron might have more to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-46318214124929859312008-03-13T02:11:00.000+00:002008-03-13T02:11:00.000+00:00I didn't mean to imply that starving farmers clear...I didn't mean to imply that starving farmers clearing land are the only or primary cause of ecological degradation (let's look at the huge cost of our own lifestyles first), merely that their situation somewhat mirrors the life-and-death situation in the hypothetical.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-12119764775340202172008-03-13T02:00:00.000+00:002008-03-13T02:00:00.000+00:00Craig, thanks for your thoughtful engagement on th...Craig, thanks for your thoughtful engagement on these issues. I'd like to respond to a few of your thoughts.<BR/><I>Though the question to ask, are they really extinct - or is it only an illusion of extinction of life and being? When God creates the new heavens and earth will those extinct animals and plants be alive once again?</I><BR/>Not an illusion, just as Jesus' death was not an illusion. byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-71852000806670799882008-03-13T01:18:00.000+00:002008-03-13T01:18:00.000+00:00I think demand is a strong word Dave!What would yo...I think demand is a strong word Dave!<BR/><BR/>What would you propose the source of the electric power that would power the national train system?<BR/><BR/>There is another question regarding the sustainability of wildlife parks. Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If you were out bush walking and a very rare and endangered snake was about to bite a member of your family and you were faced Craig Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15588042075470456058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-55766622564214519752008-03-13T01:01:00.000+00:002008-03-13T01:01:00.000+00:00Every one of us demand that our politicians build ...Every one of us demand that our politicians build a national electric rail system instead of the oil vulnerable trucking system,<BR/><BR/>demand that no new coal power plants are ever built, <BR/><BR/>demand that oil subsidies are cut (somewhere in the order of 10 billion dollars a year, and that's just in Australia), <BR/><BR/>demand a no-growth stable state economy where any "growth" is virtualAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-2094063687460696382008-03-13T00:41:00.000+00:002008-03-13T00:41:00.000+00:00Dave I agree that we are talking about saving the ...Dave I agree that we are talking about saving the planet now. There are questions to ask regarding how do we go about it?<BR/><BR/>I don't think the oil problem is as big a deal as you seem to thrive on regarding the planets survival. <BR/><BR/>What ever we do as Christians, it needs to be informed via our theology of what it means to care for creation. Therefore my point regarding there is goingCraig Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15588042075470456058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-68498441257313034572008-03-12T23:52:00.000+00:002008-03-12T23:52:00.000+00:00They are extinct for our purposes now, aren't they...They are extinct for our purposes now, aren't they? We are discussing our environmental responsibilities now, in this universe. What God may or may not do when He finishes this mess is an interesting point for discussion... but does not negate our current stewardship responsibilities.<BR/><BR/>I'm sadly becoming convinced that it's too late. There's just too many tipping points all rushing at us Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-80150939936802109692008-03-12T23:44:00.000+00:002008-03-12T23:44:00.000+00:00Om a more serious note. Extinction of animal and p...Om a more serious note. <BR/><BR/>Extinction of animal and plant life is something that has happened in the past without the exacerbation of mankind. <BR/>Yet we also have to agree that we have not been good stewards in looking after creation either and we have / are causing the extinction of many species at an alarming rate.<BR/><BR/>Though the question to ask, are they really extinct - or is itCraig Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15588042075470456058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-57617742330650084572008-03-11T23:22:00.000+00:002008-03-11T23:22:00.000+00:00Hey Byron"It's like looking out the plane window a...Hey Byron<BR/><BR/><I>"It's like looking out the plane window and not just seeing one bolt wriggle loose and fall off, but a steady stream."</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, great, thanks for that mate... I never was a very "happy flier" in the first place! ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-84724878626242533092008-03-11T22:41:00.000+00:002008-03-11T22:41:00.000+00:00The thing is, I don't know that God has given huma...The thing is, I don't know that God has given human beings enough time for more to rise up and take the place of those species we are currently wiping out. We certainly haven't left nature enough <I>room</I> for new species to develop, let alone having the hundreds of thousands of years it takes for one or 2 little changes to occur! When we are paving over and ploughing up nature so extensively Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-77516266506706121642008-03-11T22:05:00.000+00:002008-03-11T22:05:00.000+00:00Benjamin - Joking aside, I think it's taking the g...Benjamin - Joking aside, I think it's taking the geological perspective that makes this topic all the more alarming for me. There is a 'background' rate of non-human caused extinction. We are currently moving at about 1,000 times that rate. We are having a similar or larger impact, geologically speaking, than whatever wiped out the dinosaurs. And it's not simply a matter of having less exciting byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-51438503479627810352008-03-11T16:35:00.000+00:002008-03-11T16:35:00.000+00:00Dave Sorry. That was about 90% tongue in cheek. ...Dave<BR/><BR/> Sorry. That was about 90% tongue in cheek. Although I *do* tend to take the geological perspective on the extinction of particular species. I mean how many species got wiped out in Noah's flood? Surely at least 90% of them. That's the biblical account. As for the evolutionary account--I've heard it said that even there 90% of all species that have ever existed are now Benjamin Adyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03325520894212279303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-38003531581957493952008-03-11T05:28:00.000+00:002008-03-11T05:28:00.000+00:00As the stewards left in charge of this planet, isn...As the stewards left in charge of this planet, isn't it our duty to look after biodiversity for the sake of our kids and grandkids? Also, I think God might have some control over the "big picture" stuff you mention about Sol going Red Giant. I'm not sure He's going to give us that long — but I'm pretty sure He's going to hold us to account for how we've treated each other, and that includes how Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-67244809345730413012008-03-11T04:49:00.000+00:002008-03-11T04:49:00.000+00:00recognizing the futility of attempting to stop the...recognizing the futility of attempting to stop the natural extinction of species which no longer measure up in the evolutionary struggle for survival, you wait for the animal to finish eating the plant, and then you eat the animal.<BR/><BR/> (I mean lets face it. They're all going to die when the sun goes red giant in some 5 billion years anyway, barring their deaths far sooner than that from Benjamin Adyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03325520894212279303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-67471111240173947692008-03-10T10:12:00.000+00:002008-03-10T10:12:00.000+00:00Take a photo because they're all "going down"?The ...Take a photo because they're all "going down"?<BR/><BR/>The thing is, this is exactly the question conservation is now asking. As you know (but I'm just pointing out to other visitors) the questions are much bigger than that — as the riddle suggests. <BR/><BR/>In other words the whole conservation movement has shifted from concern for individual "species", as if saving one "species" would help Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-55830197032230810002008-03-06T06:32:00.000+00:002008-03-06T06:32:00.000+00:00I would say a prayer of thanks and eat them both.I would say a prayer of thanks and eat them both.Craig Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15588042075470456058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-44966092001199164912008-03-06T05:51:00.000+00:002008-03-06T05:51:00.000+00:00Got it and replied. Sorry for the delay - it's bee...Got it and replied. Sorry for the delay - it's been a busy week.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-55073008864011751152008-03-06T04:39:00.000+00:002008-03-06T04:39:00.000+00:00Sorry that is terrible. It should read here. That ...Sorry that is terrible. It should read here. That will teach me to type while I am on the phone!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-71850159151901871992008-03-06T04:20:00.000+00:002008-03-06T04:20:00.000+00:00Creation at work? Byron sorry to ask this hear. Di...Creation at work? Byron sorry to ask this hear. Did you get my email recently?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-77568310749001507152008-03-06T04:14:00.000+00:002008-03-06T04:14:00.000+00:00And welcome to commenting! Since I was the first t...And welcome to commenting! Since I was the first to view your profile, I assume this might have been your first. Do we know each other?byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-73459179342965169842008-03-06T04:09:00.000+00:002008-03-06T04:09:00.000+00:00They mightn't be subject to our laws (although act...They mightn't be subject to our laws (although actually, they are in all kinds of ways), but they are subject to our destructive activities, intentional and unintentional... :-(byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.com