tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post568831021692179144..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: Are the Greens anti-Christian?byron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-52194261598243161832013-08-27T14:17:31.902+01:002013-08-27T14:17:31.902+01:00ABC: The godless Greens? There is a striking gap b...ABC: <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/08/27/3834302.htm" rel="nofollow">The godless Greens?</a> There is a striking gap between what is often said about the Greens and what the many Christians within the Greens say about themselves.<br /><br />If you don't have time to read the whole thing, then here is the conclusion:<br />_____________________<br />"Christians, byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-48630389947825290812010-09-28T17:35:38.581+01:002010-09-28T17:35:38.581+01:00(NB It's probably important to note that eutha...(NB It's probably important to note that euthanasia was not top of Bob Brown's agenda when he was negotiating with the ALP after the election. That seems to have been climate change, and the formation of the <a href="http://greens.org.au/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=681&qid=813291" rel="nofollow">climate change committee</a> is the first result).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-42172273250589814872010-09-20T17:57:00.317+01:002010-09-20T17:57:00.317+01:00BTW, re David's question about a good introduc...BTW, re David's question about a good introduction to O'Donovan's thought: I've learned recently that one of his ex-students, Joshua Hordern, is working on such a task. Stay tuned.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-67235482458658719852010-09-20T17:55:46.210+01:002010-09-20T17:55:46.210+01:00"[V]oting is only ever possible while holding...<a href="http://nothing-new-under-the-sun.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-i-am-neither-left-nor-right-where-i.html" rel="nofollow">"[V]oting is only ever possible while holding one's nose. I've rarely voted with much confidence and never without some degree of regret, often quite deep."</a>byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-79260580682999803712010-09-20T00:24:55.328+01:002010-09-20T00:24:55.328+01:00Just heard on 702:
"Euthanasia is top of Bob ...Just heard on 702:<br />"Euthanasia is top of Bob Brown's agenda": comment on his intension to push a bill as soon as parliament sits again. <br /><br />C'mon Byron, I think its time to admit the more distasteful policies are right at the top. They are more front and centre than you would have liked to have believed.Martin Kempnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-40529295281406422362010-09-01T19:28:47.325+01:002010-09-01T19:28:47.325+01:00Sorry - I'm afraid I'm not aware of a good...Sorry - I'm afraid I'm not aware of a good summary of O'D's take on two kingdom theology at the moment, though if you look in <i>The Desire of the Nations</i>, chapters 3 and 6 you get the guts of it. He's not Barthian. He's an O'Donovanian. :-)<br /><br />In other news, an agreement between the Greens and ALP is being thrashed out. Here is what it is looking like at byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-63754462426948555042010-08-25T04:12:03.455+01:002010-08-25T04:12:03.455+01:00Several interesting articles in press today on the...Several interesting articles in press today on the Green phenomenon.<br /><br />From Andrew Bolt, <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_the_greens_are_labors_one_nation/" rel="nofollow"><i>The Greens are Labor’s One Nation</i></a><br /><br />and from Paul Kelly, <a href="http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/David Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-86068046485877948752010-08-24T21:28:10.865+01:002010-08-24T21:28:10.865+01:00Hi Guys, happy to pursue refugee issue at later da...Hi Guys, happy to pursue refugee issue at later date, too much on my plate at present.<br /><br />However, two other issues worth considering. Difficulties of Sudanese integrating plus needs of the their homeland have led me to consider resettlement in southern Sudan as difficult as that may be as a better way to proceed. This argument can be extended to other groups: Lebanese, Afghans, Sri David Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-86281783763184368912010-08-24T11:15:44.677+01:002010-08-24T11:15:44.677+01:00As for two kingdom theology, thanks for the refere...As for two kingdom theology, thanks for the references, though I'm fairly familiar with it. I just happen to disagree with it as an approach to Christian political theology. You might like to read O'Donovan's critique in <i>The Desire of the Nations</i>.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-36164925113747760602010-08-24T11:13:52.856+01:002010-08-24T11:13:52.856+01:00David - I thought Christopher's response conce...David - I thought Christopher's response concerning asylum seekers was on the money, though a few further points may be worth making.<br /><br />Asylum seekers with well-founded fears that their home country won't protect them are perfectly entitled to seek refuge in another country. <i>They are not doing something illegal in coming here</i> (under either Australian or international law).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-70021738456606580532010-08-24T10:17:55.947+01:002010-08-24T10:17:55.947+01:00Christopher - Yes, I am with you all the way. I ag...Christopher - Yes, I am with you all the way. I agree that process is very important and that we ought to be concerned about it. I also agreed that the Greens are better than average on these matters. Your comments about poll-iticians vs statesmen (and women) is still very apt. It is a failure of our political system that those who pay too much attention to polls are often rewarded. It is also a byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-61328509017843873452010-08-24T03:32:44.908+01:002010-08-24T03:32:44.908+01:00Hi Byron,
Given the talk of gay marriage by the Gr...Hi Byron,<br />Given the talk of gay marriage by the Greens since the election I think it's getting harder to accept the line that the more distasteful polices (from a Christian perspective) are unlikely to be put on the table. <br />Methinks it's time for us all to put that hopeful assumption aside.<br />MKMartin Kempnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-44948093707015337532010-08-24T01:39:46.931+01:002010-08-24T01:39:46.931+01:00and
I think these two statements need to go toget...and<br /><br />I think these two statements need to go together:<br />David said ...<i>politicians are answerable in a democracy to the collective wishes of the population.</i> <br /><br />And<br /><br />...<i>they may play to our fears as you say but they are still our fears that they are able to play to.</i><br /><br />Obviously a large part of the democratic process is for politicians to Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-53870860770302663712010-08-24T01:39:04.260+01:002010-08-24T01:39:04.260+01:00Hi David and Byron,
Sorry if this is rambling or ...Hi David and Byron,<br /><br />Sorry if this is rambling or if there are misplaced apostrophe’s :)<br /><br /><i>Every person’s heart is blemished with sin, every ideal and project is infected with corruption, every ascription of guilt and innocence saddled with noninnocence.</i> Volf, Exclusion & Embrace, p. 84.<br /><br />I read this section from Volf this morning and I think it is Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-32490799690494275492010-08-23T21:40:30.059+01:002010-08-23T21:40:30.059+01:00I think in your reply to my question you have mana...I think in your reply to my question you have managed to avoid the (moral) issue I raised about the respective rights of those considered for acceptance into Australia as refugees: those who are stuck in deplorable conditions in an Ethiopian refugee camp versus those with money to make their way to Australia with money to present themselves as refugees. You may see no qualitative difference. I, David Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-63531410564907126832010-08-23T17:34:16.759+01:002010-08-23T17:34:16.759+01:00PS David - I'd love to know your thoughts on t...PS David - I'd love to know your thoughts on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Labor_Party" rel="nofollow">DLP</a>, esp given that it looks like they have scored a Victorian Senate seat.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-70997848512021277352010-08-23T12:57:05.308+01:002010-08-23T12:57:05.308+01:00with the tendency to centralisation (Canberra v St...<i>with the tendency to centralisation (Canberra v States) don't count on sharp state/commonwealth boundaries.</i><br />Yes, you're right, though probably more in the long term on some of these issues. I doubt we're going to entirely abolish the States in the next couple of years (though there's a decent chance it could happen before too long).<br /><br /><i>Please justify to me byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-2493165894976647312010-08-23T11:30:01.675+01:002010-08-23T11:30:01.675+01:00Re refugee issue, I think the issue is not so cut ...Re refugee issue, I think the issue is not so cut and dried as you and Christopher and others may think.<br /><br />I have had a lot to do with Sudanese refugees over the past 10 years who typically have spent many years in camps, principally in Ethiopia, Uganda and Kenya with no money to get them to Indonesia or for the boat trip to Australia. Please justify to me if you can why people with David Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-81315502486564772622010-08-23T11:11:21.530+01:002010-08-23T11:11:21.530+01:00Furthermore, the matters you raised (which I don&#...<i>Furthermore, the matters you raised (which I don't deny are important) fall largely within state jurisdiction.</i><br /><br />Marriage is a Federal matter not a State matter.<br /><br />Re other matters, you are correct, though with the tendency to centralisation (Canberra v States) don't count on sharp state/commonwealth boundaries.<br /><br /><i>Greens candidates & members are ofDavid Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-72082088905949180112010-08-23T11:05:52.259+01:002010-08-23T11:05:52.259+01:00Re Mark's comment, Adam Brandt who took Lindsa...Re Mark's comment, Adam Brandt who took Lindsay Tanner's seat of Melbourne has just nominated to Kerry O'Brien (ABC, 7.30 pm) same sex marriage as one of his key concerns in lending his support to Labor.<br /><br />Commitment to progressive politics means a lot more than green politics.David Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-44037060450239744282010-08-23T11:01:53.626+01:002010-08-23T11:01:53.626+01:00David - I have indeed missed some of those develop...David - I have indeed missed some of those developments in Victoria and I don't deny that they are issues involving important questions of justice and ethics. Thanks for pointing them out.<br /><br />I've never said anything other than that all parties are deeply compromised and so voting (a) can only ever be <a href="http://nothing-new-under-the-sun.blogspot.com/2006/11/byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-15875124521920960822010-08-23T10:52:29.545+01:002010-08-23T10:52:29.545+01:00Christopher makes a good point, though it's wo...Christopher makes a good point, though it's worth noting that while they might on average be better procedurally (and personally, I find their website much easier to navigate to discover policies than either of the major parties), Greens candidates & members are of course perfectly capable of being just as nasty, fear-mongering and obstructionist as their colleagues across the spectrum. byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-34066212979453028862010-08-23T00:23:14.577+01:002010-08-23T00:23:14.577+01:00@Mark I don't think the Greens 'started...@Mark I don't think the Greens 'started' spruiking gay marriage on election night - they have been pretty clear on that.<br /><br />In fact they are pretty clear on most of their policies unlike the major parties. This clarity and openness - important traits that Christians should expect from politicians - is something that attracts me to the Greens.<br /><br />In these debates about Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-67726635111115645222010-08-22T11:14:41.333+01:002010-08-22T11:14:41.333+01:00the more objectionable Greens policies are far les...<i>the more objectionable Greens policies are far less likely to come up over the next six years than some of their more attractive positions.</i><br /><br />I view this statement as pure speculation, and unwarranted to boot!<br /><br />Byron, you have obviously missed out on recent changes in Victoria to abortion law, making availability of assisted reproductive technologies available to David Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12915892358086536345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-39485458249132067832010-08-21T13:30:59.822+01:002010-08-21T13:30:59.822+01:00Hmm, I am watching the election coverage and the G...Hmm, I am watching the election coverage and the Greens have had a huge swing (no surprise) and they have started spruking gay marriage. Just saying...Mark Stevenshttp://revdmarkstevens.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com