tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post7900496949142668465..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: Faithfulness is failure (or looks like it)byron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-9927806973815111312008-12-05T11:22:00.000+00:002008-12-05T11:22:00.000+00:00:-):-)byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-55063900685315887012008-12-04T23:41:00.000+00:002008-12-04T23:41:00.000+00:00"[W]ho said pedantry is unrewarding?"George W. Bus..."<I>[W]ho said pedantry is unrewarding?</I>"<BR/><BR/>George W. Bush?Matthew Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00546422699620482793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-45280484837511517872008-12-04T09:09:00.000+00:002008-12-04T09:09:00.000+00:00Moffitt - ten points.Anthony - two for your pedant...Moffitt - ten <A HREF="http://nothing-new-under-the-sun.blogspot.com/2006/09/pics-and-points.html" REL="nofollow">points</A>.<BR/><BR/>Anthony - two for your pedantry (who said pedantry is unrewarding? (There may be points for answering this rhetorical question. Then again, there might not)).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-81421134051625167442008-12-04T07:35:00.000+00:002008-12-04T07:35:00.000+00:00No, it's definitely Rushcutters Bay. I don't know ...No, it's definitely Rushcutters Bay. I don't know how you could have mixed the two up!Anthony Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16277745466192451883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-17285287304007295072008-12-04T02:52:00.000+00:002008-12-04T02:52:00.000+00:00Ruschcutters Bay?Ruschcutters Bay?Matthew Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00546422699620482793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-85931601831944779932008-11-25T10:20:00.000+00:002008-11-25T10:20:00.000+00:00G - yes, that's true and thanks for pointing it ou...G - yes, that's true and thanks for pointing it out. Perhaps at least some of us were thinking ecclesiologically because that seems to be Ellul's primary concern in this book (which is a book about politics and the relation of the church and state).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-60731793414172193412008-11-25T02:30:00.000+00:002008-11-25T02:30:00.000+00:00Interesting that you've almost all taken this pass...Interesting that you've almost all taken this passage in an ecclesiological sense. I think it rings true more closely on the question of personal piety.Gavin McChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13456676589713605879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-74482607950004769972008-11-18T14:45:00.000+00:002008-11-18T14:45:00.000+00:00I was preaching last Sunday on the "letter" to the...I was preaching last Sunday on the "letter" to the church in Philadelphia in Rev 3. The thing which struck me was that this is one of the churches about which Christ has nothing bad to say, but it is described as having "little strength". So, at the very least, outward strength/success is not the same as the faithfulness which pleases christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-59770617434727972592008-11-18T06:01:00.000+00:002008-11-18T06:01:00.000+00:00Seems to me that the answer to your two last quest...Seems to me that the answer to your two last questions depends on your answer to the questions "what is success?" and "what is failure?" Can we talk of Christian "success" where God is glorified, truth is revealed, love is shown and people become more Christ-like? ... Or is that just the definition of faithfulness?Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14703064533223990944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-23957093960631417932008-11-17T23:21:00.000+00:002008-11-17T23:21:00.000+00:00sounds like Hauerwas-style, church-as-protest, ref...sounds like Hauerwas-style, <I>church-as-protest</I>, refusing to trade in its chips for the "neutral secular language" in the public square. Insofar as the church <I>can</I> work towards the common good, I would disagree with Ellul; Insofar as the gospel delegitimises any project in the secular age, I would agree. I think it's all part of the now & not-yet ambiguity.Chris Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277300338582244889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-17960486160510242922008-11-17T22:50:00.000+00:002008-11-17T22:50:00.000+00:00To unpack Jess's issue: is the person "underperfor...To unpack Jess's issue: is the person "underperforming" in a less-than-optimal-efficiency way? or in a less-than-faithful way? I actually think Ellul helps you here.<BR/><BR/>His insight is that in the church, we musn't play by the 'rules' of efficiency. Nor should we value people's contribution. I recently heard someone who ran a small business plan for some inefficiency in her business, so thatgbroughtohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04835374770367316112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-7095662240578160032008-11-17T19:43:00.000+00:002008-11-17T19:43:00.000+00:00on the whole I think Ellul is right. We cannot be ...on the whole I think Ellul is right. We cannot be too concerned with the world's ideals about success and failure. We must be willing to look a fool and a failure. To walk as misunderstood or blamed and even, yes, ridiculous. So long as we are faithful this is how the world will often see Christ and his church. Things like turning the other cheek are neither utilitarian nor praised by a wold who Name[d]https://www.blogger.com/profile/01310533185114764357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-32485157887412648352008-11-17T18:12:00.000+00:002008-11-17T18:12:00.000+00:00Don't worry about being effective especially in a ...Don't worry about being effective especially in a church situation providing you are doing all you can do. <BR/><BR/>Ellul says on pg. 197 of the book <BR/>"To be controlled by utility and the pursuit of efficacy is to be subject to the strictest determination of the actual world. To want to attain results is necessarily not to be a witness to the free gift of God". <BR/><BR/>This probably does Plessey Mathewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17011771448120044377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-66181638900967568682008-11-17T16:44:00.000+00:002008-11-17T16:44:00.000+00:00oh dear - I am finding this quite difficult at the...oh dear - I am finding this quite difficult at the moment in a concrete situation. Is it being most faithful to put up with an under performing worker in a church context for the sake of valuing the person and seeing them grow and do better, even at a cost of getting the job done and the time of others, or is that just ridiculous and not good for anyone and I'd do better to have us succeed by jessica smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12387186546476608523noreply@blogger.com