tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post892176498076550722..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: Would Jesus vote green?byron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-70936578674121282542007-05-04T15:44:00.000+01:002007-05-04T15:44:00.000+01:00Dave B - thanks and a nice blurb.JoBloggs - yes, i...Dave B - thanks and a nice blurb.<BR/><BR/>JoBloggs - yes, it would have been very interesting to see if that made a difference.<BR/><BR/>Dave L - of course I won't leave out Peak Oil!<BR/><BR/>Doug - thanks for the updates, I was listening to some of the results on the radio tonight.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-12356231847667908672007-05-04T15:13:00.000+01:002007-05-04T15:13:00.000+01:00Saying as Byron touched on the subject of the Scot...Saying as Byron touched on the subject of the Scottish Election, I thought I would give a brief update.<BR/><BR/>Interesting situation - apparently 100,000 votes were 'spoilt' beasue of a new voting system of single transferable vote (STV), and having to vote for 3 different people at the same time (1 firstpast the post, 1 proportioanl representtaion (both Scottish Parilament), and 1 STV(Local Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-45338816594502170452007-05-04T03:52:00.000+01:002007-05-04T03:52:00.000+01:00Hi Byron (and all),nice talk heading!I'm not sure ...Hi Byron (and all),<BR/>nice talk heading!<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure how I'd handle the approach given it's an evangelistic talk, but hey... you could drop a peak oil reference in there along the lines of...<BR/><BR/>"...not only that, but because of human greed we are running out of oil as well — as the ABC's "Crude" will demonstrate at 8:30 the 24th May..."<BR/><BR/>Just complete the talk with a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-88819301729549331142007-05-04T00:21:00.000+01:002007-05-04T00:21:00.000+01:00Glad you found it helpful, Byron - yes, I'm not so...Glad you found it helpful, Byron - yes, I'm not so keen on Kant myself. But the response astounded me! If Scott had identified himself as a member of the Greens rather than a theologian (both of which he is!) I think people would have read the article entirely differently.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923073692315462946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-51914491395144215062007-05-03T14:45:00.000+01:002007-05-03T14:45:00.000+01:00Byron, below is a blurb I wrote a couple of days a...Byron, below is a blurb I wrote a couple of days ago for the front of our church newsheet. Most of the ideas are taken from Craig Bartholomew and Michael Goheen's excelent book <A HREF="http://www.biblicaltheology.ca/bluedescription.htm" REL="nofollow">The Drama of Scripture: Finding Our Place in the Biblical Story</A><BR/><BR/><B>God’s Unfinished Project</B><BR/>In the opening chapter of GenesisDave Barriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10890664187276008177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-81844877908357617132007-05-03T07:52:00.000+01:002007-05-03T07:52:00.000+01:00JoBloggs - thanks and thanks. Oh boy, did no one a...JoBloggs - thanks and thanks. Oh boy, did no one acually read the article? It was incredible how so many of the commentators seemed to think they knew what he would say once they worked out he was Christian. I don't buy the Kantian morality, but I appreciated the critique of a faddish embrace of environmentalism, which doesn't necessarily help at more than a surface level. The trick is moving byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-40819282855023779242007-05-03T07:12:00.000+01:002007-05-03T07:12:00.000+01:00Byron,Firstly - a very belated comment to say how ...Byron,<BR/>Firstly - a very belated comment to say how glad I was to hear the good news about your health. Your readers in Melbourne were praying and we do praise God for answering these prayers.<BR/>Secondly - more pertinent to this question - you might like to look at an article written by a mate of mine, on the current trendiness of environmental concern:<BR/>http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923073692315462946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-69154261067005920512007-05-03T06:15:00.000+01:002007-05-03T06:15:00.000+01:00Yes, that would indeed be making it too big - or r...Yes, that would indeed be making it too big - or rather, perhaps not big enough. For to make of the environment a (false) god ends up giving it less honour, not more, because it perverts the honour that is offered to it into a negative.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-7837556661478070732007-05-03T04:08:00.000+01:002007-05-03T04:08:00.000+01:00I meant it becomes too big because we make the env...I meant it becomes too big because we make the environment into a god who must be appeased: We, once again, worship the creation.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03148452877425621293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-56203557910606313192007-05-03T00:01:00.000+01:002007-05-03T00:01:00.000+01:00Looney - Yes, you're right. I'm simplifying. I was...Looney - Yes, you're right. I'm simplifying. I was just thinking of one scale (amongst many), namely, the extent to which someone has come to see 'the environment' as a problem. There are many other variables.<BR/><BR/>My impression is that Jesus might tell us the problem is bigger than we think, and that the solution is quite radically beyond us, and yet we have more obligation/opportunity to byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-77278096497223898012007-05-02T23:05:00.000+01:002007-05-02T23:05:00.000+01:00Byron, there are more than two sides. I live in t...Byron, there are more than two sides. I live in the most environmentally conscious corner of America. We are also notorious for being the most "unaffordable" corner of America. That means multiple families living in a tiny, million dollar house and/or people driving 200+ miles per day to commute into the environmentally friendly Silicon Valley for work.<BR/><BR/>Rev. Sam suggested that social Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-42311947904342194422007-05-02T21:39:00.000+01:002007-05-02T21:39:00.000+01:00Please be sure to blog your remarks when done.Please be sure to blog your remarks when done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-22464821217591065962007-05-02T14:15:00.000+01:002007-05-02T14:15:00.000+01:00Thanks Rev Sam - I've had a look at your presentat...Thanks Rev Sam - I've had a look at your presentation now. I might steal a couple of ideas.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-38802665520026994672007-05-02T13:44:00.000+01:002007-05-02T13:44:00.000+01:00Chris - hmmm... Though point taken about Christian...Chris - hmmm... Though point taken about Christianity and capitalism (a mixed blessing/curse, like all Christian heresies).<BR/><BR/>Rev Sam - thanks for the reference and I'll be sure to check out your work.<BR/><BR/>Antman - do you think the indifferent would come to a talk on 'Would Jesus vote green?' or is it more likely to be the already converted?<BR/><BR/>Tim - yeah, I have similar hunchesbyron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-53410051341561576412007-05-02T13:27:00.000+01:002007-05-02T13:27:00.000+01:00I think that the view that the Christian world-vie...I think that the view that the Christian world-view was responsible for environmental mismanagement was academically popular - and probably still is. I don't think it is a populist view, but it is out there and some of your audience will likely know and hold to that view.<BR/><BR/>In general society, however, I think that capatlism/business is currently held more responsible for environmental Mister Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08825856773085135599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-951889603701629562007-05-02T12:54:00.000+01:002007-05-02T12:54:00.000+01:00My feeling is that your audience is probably large...My feeling is that your audience is probably largely indifferent. Indifference has got to be the great sin of our materialistic, consumerist, middle class western lifestyles (thanks kierkegaard). So half the battle is would Jesus have voted at all, because we are all too ready to read our indifference back onto him.<BR/><BR/>But maybe that is my middle class, materialistic, consumerist and self antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11666833526450274496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-85437794653839411912007-05-02T12:53:00.000+01:002007-05-02T12:53:00.000+01:00To my mind one of the under-rated elements in Scri...To my mind one of the under-rated elements in Scripture that is relevant to this whole debate is the way in which environmental catastrophe is seen as the consequence of social injustice. Hosea 4 is my favourite text explaining this, but there are plenty of others. Which is why the creation groans with eager longing for the revealing of the children - ie righteousness will be received in the Sam Charles Nortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04088870675715850624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-78680740474471243622007-05-02T10:52:00.000+01:002007-05-02T10:52:00.000+01:00You could throw into the mix Jesus' "attack" on th...You could throw into the mix Jesus' "attack" on the plant kingdom (cursing the fig tree) and his "attack" on the animal kingdom (drowning pigs), but that could get confusing.<BR/><BR/>I think there is a general perception that Christianity with Capitalism are responsible for our present environmental situation. Some of the criticism is deserved.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-81803564278119275142007-05-02T08:59:00.000+01:002007-05-02T08:59:00.000+01:00Drew - why is the latter response too big? Wouldn'...Drew - why is the latter response too big? Wouldn't a little more penance (confession and repentance, including changes in behaviour) be quite healthy?byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-21940034684006102842007-05-02T08:23:00.000+01:002007-05-02T08:23:00.000+01:00I think you should aim at both crowds.It's too eas...I think you should aim at both crowds.<BR/><BR/>It's too easily a superficial issue (I'm hip, I'm green, I drive a green limosouine), OR inflated to too big an issue, (Do penance for your environmental sins, scum!).<BR/><BR/>Haha! Love Looney's comment.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03148452877425621293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-78373341778718171652007-05-02T08:19:00.000+01:002007-05-02T08:19:00.000+01:00Meredith - Well done; I was going to offer points ...Meredith - Well done; I was going to offer points for the tree, but thought it would be too hard. I'll give you <A HREF="http://nothing-new-under-the-sun.blogspot.com/2006/09/pics-and-points.html" REL="nofollow">fifteen points</A> for getting it right anyway!<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the tips - though since I need the talk written by Monday night, not sure I'll have time to incorporate all that byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-76942656911890204092007-05-02T07:32:00.000+01:002007-05-02T07:32:00.000+01:00Hey Byron,is that fig the one in the graveyard at ...Hey Byron,<BR/><BR/>is that fig the one in the graveyard at St Stephens Newtown? What a good looking tree...<BR/><BR/>And also, you might be interested in Lynn White's famous article (from the late 1960s) on 'the historical origins of our ecologial crisis' (or something like that. Historians generally consider it the article that started the whole debate about the historical relationship between Meredithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05076364508884699137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-42075182281118072022007-05-02T06:12:00.000+01:002007-05-02T06:12:00.000+01:00The reaction of Jesus would probably be surprising...<I>The reaction of Jesus would probably be surprising. </I><BR/>Yes - to both sides. Do you think I should address both, or focus on one?byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-36226257733108387512007-05-02T05:34:00.000+01:002007-05-02T05:34:00.000+01:00When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. ...When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money used to clean up the environment."<BR/><BR/>The reaction of Jesus would probably be surprising. Keep in mind that he truly knows peoples hearts, motives as well as all of the subtle consequences.Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-17894449240542126702007-05-02T05:04:00.000+01:002007-05-02T05:04:00.000+01:00Thanks Rachel, I'll chase those sites up now.Thanks Rachel, I'll chase those sites up now.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.com