tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post2354338205141978526..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: Marriage and surnamesbyron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-35926679677226619292009-12-01T20:53:13.796+00:002009-12-01T20:53:13.796+00:00Charles Foster, a son of Jodie Foster has the same...Charles Foster, a son of Jodie Foster has the same name of a hero shot the gunman dead in the McDonald's. Ironically, a man shot and injured the gunman in Luby's cafeteria, and HIS name is Jodie Fore!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-75196355801149530122008-05-15T16:05:00.000+01:002008-05-15T16:05:00.000+01:00In the news...<A HREF="http://www.smh.com.au/news/bridal/mans-battle-to-take-wifes-name/2008/05/06/1209839629563.html" REL="nofollow">In the news...</A>byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-62725566118311120772008-04-24T12:47:00.000+01:002008-04-24T12:47:00.000+01:00I changed my name. I did get a fancy french name f...I changed my name. I did get a fancy french name for my trouble though. I agree this is a very difficult decision. For those who objected to me being known by a man's name, I pointed out that my maiden name is my father's name - another man. I am contemplating putting it back as a middle name, since I did that for facebook recognition purposes. We used my maiden name as one of my son's middle Meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05400747412761753914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-63222798150650582632008-04-24T05:43:00.000+01:002008-04-24T05:43:00.000+01:00Hey Byron. I was also thinking: the Spanish exampl...Hey Byron. I was also thinking: the Spanish example is relevant to the discussion about wives' names, since in that system (as I understand) no-one's personal name changes on marriage. As a matter of convention, my mother could (and would often) be referred to as "the wife of Yabsley": or now, "the widow of Yabsley", a usage close to the "the widow X" style that is still current in English in Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-10444226255492498352008-04-24T05:33:00.000+01:002008-04-24T05:33:00.000+01:00Thanks Byron - I didn't intend to suggest that you...Thanks Byron - I didn't intend to suggest that you yourself were being critical, and I enjoyed your attempts to lighten things up ( although I think I've heard the coin toss option floated somewhere before...). <BR/><BR/>Maybe I got carried away but I guess I just feel like it's an issue which is often completely overpoliticised, and in which women such as myself are made to feel like we have nicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122774919449324922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-66300337219819109942008-04-24T03:17:00.000+01:002008-04-24T03:17:00.000+01:00Bruce - My apologies. I was misremembering the sys...Bruce - My apologies. I was misremembering the system from reading about it a couple of years ago and didn't look closely enough at your explanation. You are right. It is the maternal names that generally drop off after a generation (though this is sometimes reversed).<BR/><BR/>Nic - As part of a married couple who have also gone with the husband's name, I am not criticising your decision. My byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-77314985302020081682008-04-24T02:02:00.000+01:002008-04-24T02:02:00.000+01:00woops meant to post the link to the SMH piece.woops meant to post the link to the <A HREF="http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/sir-i-will-not-take-your-name/2008/04/16/1208025283874.html" REL="nofollow">SMH piece. </A>nicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122774919449324922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-24631416740062325252008-04-24T01:59:00.000+01:002008-04-24T01:59:00.000+01:00As a woman who delighted in changing her surname t...As a woman who delighted in changing her surname to that of my husband, I often find myself feeling somewhat frustrated when this topic comes up, particularly when issues of gender and sexism are raised alongside. While I understand that the tradition from which the name change arises was somewhat less than ideal in its understanding and treatment of women, I really quite resent the (not always nicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122774919449324922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-18347389201026463302008-04-24T01:09:00.000+01:002008-04-24T01:09:00.000+01:00Sorry, Byron, but isn't this a misunderstanding? M...Sorry, Byron, but isn't this a misunderstanding? <BR/><BR/>My (hypothetical) son would have "Yabsley" as his "first" surname: as would I, and as my father would have had. By contrast "Sawkins", his (my son's) grandmother's name on my side, would be no part of his name.Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-27885447020639467312008-04-24T00:45:00.000+01:002008-04-24T00:45:00.000+01:00Bruce - I was going to mention the Spanish practic...Bruce - I was going to mention the Spanish practice (which I think is superior to most other options), but didn't want to go on too long, as it is a little complicated. It ends up 'privileging' the female line, though only in the children's children (since grandchildren bear the two final names of their grandmothers, not their grandfathers).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-86853680376185942212008-04-23T16:57:00.000+01:002008-04-23T16:57:00.000+01:00Let me speak in favour of the excellent Spanish pr...Let me speak in favour of the excellent Spanish practice, in which children take the family name from both sides: father's first, mother's second. So if I were a Spaniard, my legal name on the peninsula would be Bruce Donald Yabsley Sawkins. And if (for example, and contrary to her tastes) I had a son with Jodie Foster, his name would be Nathan George Yabsley Foster.<BR/><BR/>(This is not a Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-61738270535173646052008-04-23T14:08:00.000+01:002008-04-23T14:08:00.000+01:00"Names are given by others, not chosen for ourselv..."Names are given by others, not chosen for ourselves... our identity primarily comes through the recognition of others, rather than being self-willed"<BR/><BR/>That's a very interesting point, Byron... One that we don't like to think about too much in our individualistic society. I gives us a healthy perspective of us as people in relationship with other people, rather than people in spite of sairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05926254330438685627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-12085777958282699472008-04-23T09:29:00.000+01:002008-04-23T09:29:00.000+01:00Drew - A family of origin, while relativised by Je...Drew - A family of origin, while relativised by Jesus' teaching and practice, continues to have some place in our lives. I agree that the giving of a new name is a powerful way of symbolising a major change in identity, hence the practice of "Christian" names, which were given at baptism. Many RCs still give a <I>fourth</I> name at baptism in a slightly watered down version of this practice.<BR/>byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-4064968354843411432008-04-23T09:01:00.000+01:002008-04-23T09:01:00.000+01:00Doesn't Jesus offer a solution? No marriage at the...Doesn't Jesus offer a solution? No marriage at the resurrection...bigdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07230715637685272434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-28201974715993686442008-04-23T07:40:00.000+01:002008-04-23T07:40:00.000+01:00I've heard people wanting to give a first initial....I've heard people wanting to give a <I>first</I> initial... like T. James Smith, or something. <BR/><BR/>Why are we so caught up with names? What is the value of a 'family of origin', which only postpones the the question of who's name by a generation? To what importance do we attach the <I>creation</I> of a <I>new</I> family, and therefore, is not a new name therefore suitable? Perhaps for Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03148452877425621293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-57511851311842454412008-04-23T02:38:00.000+01:002008-04-23T02:38:00.000+01:00Chris - Wow, you're right, there's a whole untappe...Chris - Wow, you're right, there's a whole untapped market here.<BR/><BR/>I guess "De Mayes" is better than "Maygon".<BR/><BR/>CJW - Yes, certain names don't generate as much enthusiasm regarding preservation.<BR/><BR/>I love the story about middle names. I've often joked about giving a child an initial for a middle name, but doubt I'd ever do it for exactly the confusion with forms you mention.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-56512130325792337912008-04-23T01:42:00.000+01:002008-04-23T01:42:00.000+01:00My wife was all too happy to change her last name ...My wife was all too happy to change her last name from 'Seeman' - for obvious reasons. Though, the decision is not as straightforward for some couples. When her brother and sister-in-law (who both kept their own last names, having already authored academic publications) had their first child, they decided on a hybrid last name consisting of the first and last three letters of their respective CJWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715644165768403835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-63717021636977267852008-04-22T23:04:00.000+01:002008-04-22T23:04:00.000+01:00This is the perfect opportunity for an entrepreneu...This is the perfect opportunity for an entrepreneur (or out of work counsellor) to step in and create a whole industry out of this problem...Names Counsellors. The couple could meet the NC for several weeks leading up to the wedding, discussing family history, personal achievements and sufferings, interests and desires, favourite artists etc. Once the payment has been made, or at least a Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-85705501357406966652008-04-22T13:43:00.000+01:002008-04-22T13:43:00.000+01:00Matt - OK, well here's an alternative to really st...Matt - OK, well here's an alternative to really start an internecine conflict. Set up two accounts that are either (a) for the couple to set up their new life together or (b) to be donated to a charity of their choice. Instead of giving presents, all the guests get to vote with their money for one surname or the other.<BR/><BR/>In any case, don't one half of the people (or at least one half of byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-75336391687077264632008-04-22T12:34:00.000+01:002008-04-22T12:34:00.000+01:00Man, these are the kinds of things the artist form...Man, these are the kinds of things the artist formerly known as Prince just doesn't have to deal with!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-60990885346971765592008-04-22T10:35:00.000+01:002008-04-22T10:35:00.000+01:00Okay, cute suggestion. But, in practice, what it m...Okay, cute suggestion. But, in practice, what it means is that instead of everyone celebrating together at the end of the marriage service, one half of the people leave the church feeling disappointed because their team lost the game. And then they have to go and celebrate with the winners. Talk about rubbing their noses in it! And don't tell me the father of the winning family won't gloat about Mathesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309831987958617937noreply@blogger.com