tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post5631766031079758963..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: Collective responsibilitybyron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-62090929637683894412012-09-26T13:22:05.643+01:002012-09-26T13:22:05.643+01:00According to here, this quote is misattributed to ...According to <a href="http://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Voltaire#section_3" rel="nofollow">here</a>, this quote is misattributed to Voltaire and actually belongs to Stanisŀaw Jerzy Lec, <i>More Unkempt Thoughts</i> [<i>Myśli nieuczesane nowe</i>] (1964).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-78116537478763387962012-03-26T18:33:30.410+01:002012-03-26T18:33:30.410+01:00The Conversation: Ross Garnaut puts the lie to the...The Conversation: <a href="https://theconversation.edu.au/australias-contribution-matters-why-we-cant-ignore-our-climate-responsibilities-1863" rel="nofollow">Ross Garnaut puts the lie to the claim that Australia is a bit player on climate</a>.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-1149113792521683282011-12-09T00:25:49.591+00:002011-12-09T00:25:49.591+00:00Guardian: Interactive - who is responsible for car...Guardian: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/interactive/2011/dec/08/carbon-emissions-global-climate-talks" rel="nofollow">Interactive - who is responsible for carbon emissions?</a>.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-52409902028539886122011-10-07T22:59:18.770+01:002011-10-07T22:59:18.770+01:00STW: Australia's per capita historical emissio...STW: <a href="http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/lewandowskyHistorespons.html" rel="nofollow">Australia's per capita historical emissions</a>. This is an important metric for considering responsibility.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-9301153204515743072011-07-29T00:34:26.975+01:002011-07-29T00:34:26.975+01:00Bury Coal: Obection: China is worse. Facing the sa...Bury Coal: <a href="http://burycoal.com/blog/2011/07/27/objection-china-is-worse/" rel="nofollow">Obection: China is worse</a>. Facing the same argument from a Canadian perspective. Where you read "tar sands", replace with "coal" and you pretty much have Australia.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-23265736697572355662011-07-28T20:20:10.689+01:002011-07-28T20:20:10.689+01:00Donna - Excellent and thanks! I particularly like ...Donna - Excellent and thanks! I particularly like "circular apathy", which might also be called "mutually-reinforcing irresponsibility".byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-86959130952431056802011-07-27T18:18:09.340+01:002011-07-27T18:18:09.340+01:00I have so many issues with that line of argument. ...I have so many issues with that line of argument. <br /><br />It's illogical - the implication that if you cause a "small" part of a problem you shouldn't have to fix it at all. (Surely you should at least be responsible for fixing whatever problem you caused).<br /><br />It's misguided in implying that the environment shouldn't get in the way of our economic growth.<br Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14703064533223990944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-25367166869870162392011-07-25T13:02:55.209+01:002011-07-25T13:02:55.209+01:00Byron - if you go to the OD main site and scroll d...Byron - if you go to the OD main site and scroll down half a dozen stories you'll see the relevant one.<br /><br />And yes, the rich should certainly pay their taxes!!Sam Charles Nortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04088870675715850624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-65376121311274523992011-07-25T12:55:03.431+01:002011-07-25T12:55:03.431+01:00BTW, the OD reference led to a security warning te...BTW, the OD reference led to a security warning telling me not to go ahead.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-34697141422516829752011-07-25T12:53:41.998+01:002011-07-25T12:53:41.998+01:00Soaking the rich may not be sufficient, but gettin...Soaking the rich may not be sufficient, but getting them to pay their taxes would be a decent start. ;-)byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-48062806761905515572011-07-25T08:32:26.656+01:002011-07-25T08:32:26.656+01:00Byron - completely agree with you about discountin...Byron - completely agree with you about discounting/no growth etc. The interesting question is the political one - and I'm not sure that 'soak the rich' is enough of an answer, but I need to do more work on that. For info on the coal stations see, eg, here: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8146Sam Charles Nortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04088870675715850624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-21999831230922016292011-07-25T04:05:29.706+01:002011-07-25T04:05:29.706+01:00You'd appreciate this article.
http://www.smh....You'd appreciate this article.<br />http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-carbon-tax-is-working-nicely-20110725-1hw2y.htmlJuggernaut1981https://www.blogger.com/profile/09770878317522688714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-168196192854982542011-07-24T23:32:02.103+01:002011-07-24T23:32:02.103+01:00Andrew - Some good analogies. I don't think th...Andrew - Some good analogies. I don't think that we humans are very good at intuitively grasping cumulative problems. We get there eventually, but it can take a while. So finding some partial analogies (like the garbage analogy you suggest) can be a good way of helping people to feel the issue.<br /><br />As for the rant, I happened to come across the original a few days ago and posted a linkbyron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-29589838832447315192011-07-24T22:54:01.690+01:002011-07-24T22:54:01.690+01:00I found the link to the article I had read. It...I found the link to the article I had read. It's less 'concrete economics/science' and more of a 'rant against the one-sided interests flooding media'<br />http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2794652.htmlJuggernaut1981https://www.blogger.com/profile/09770878317522688714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-85732844860705038432011-07-24T22:49:01.313+01:002011-07-24T22:49:01.313+01:00Regarding the "1.5% of the mess = no effect&q...Regarding the "1.5% of the mess = no effect".<br />To use an analogy I've read previously: We're all playing chicken with nature. Two (or many more really) vehicles going straight for each other and one side will have to give up right (Economies or Environment)?<br /><br />If we make 1.5% of the mess, then we should be making sure we're not the final straw on this camel we Juggernaut1981https://www.blogger.com/profile/09770878317522688714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-58903390207993125912011-07-24T22:43:52.239+01:002011-07-24T22:43:52.239+01:00Mike - Here's another post with some more grap...Mike - <a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/01/04/climate-crunch-the-fierce-urgency-of-now/" rel="nofollow">Here's another post</a> with some more graphs that paint different emissions path scenarios and show what the costs of delay mean if we want to have a decent chance of staying below 2ºC.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-10633809959129002052011-07-24T22:35:25.815+01:002011-07-24T22:35:25.815+01:00Mike - Yes, that is at the heart of it. Read this ...Mike - Yes, that is at the heart of it. Read <a href="http://climatecodered.blogspot.com/2009/11/copenhagen-reality-check-25-by-2020.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> for some filling out of the numbers. The bottom line is that if we assume (a) the mainstream science is correct, (b) we want to have a 75% chance of staying below the already very nasty prospect of a 2ºC rise from pre-industrial byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-70545201662783281372011-07-23T12:55:12.203+01:002011-07-23T12:55:12.203+01:00and we are about 0.3% of the world population, e...and we are about 0.3% of the world population, even with the 1.5% figure on our carbon production, we are using five times our fair share. So we need to reduce our carbon emissions by 80% before we are at world average, and then we can start thinking about reducing them further. Unless of course, our race as an inbuilt right to use more than chinese or indian or black people. The labour party Mike Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11525682801952791861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-75833113440146733882011-07-23T11:23:28.291+01:002011-07-23T11:23:28.291+01:00Byron, have you (will you?) explored the different...Byron, have you (will you?) explored the different cost-benefit assessments? I understand that you personally subscribe to the 'tipping point' understanding of CC - that is, we're at risk of setting off a positive feedback process (am I right in thinking that?) - which weights the moral assessments strongly in one direction. But those who don't accept that - even if they accept Sam Charles Nortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04088870675715850624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-89766661875907964652011-07-23T11:04:29.375+01:002011-07-23T11:04:29.375+01:00Andrew - I agree entirely with your second point a...Andrew - I agree entirely with your second point about the non-benign effects of small changes to where things have previously been.<br /><br />I also agree with your first point, though it is worth noting a few things. First, that $10 per week is the <i>average</i> cost, if the modelling is correct, then some will have considerably higher costs, most considerably lower. Second, that $10 is the byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-10148498200426192352011-07-23T03:01:46.482+01:002011-07-23T03:01:46.482+01:00When I read that quote, I was curious about the co...When I read that quote, I was curious about the combination of utilitarian and defeatist sentiments behind it. 'We don't contribute much but have to pay more (or so we allege) than everyone else.' What I infer from that is that if not enough other nations are doing anything, the world is doomed anyway, so Australia may as well remain comfortable by not taking any economic hit.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-9788397959388182542011-07-23T02:07:16.089+01:002011-07-23T02:07:16.089+01:00I've heard, from a realiable enough source tha...I've heard, from a realiable enough source that my sketchy memory has forgotten, that the net cost of the proposed carbon tax on the average Australian (as proposed) would be $10 per week.<br /><br />I see students blow more than that in a lunchtime. I know plenty of corporate workers (whom I used to work with) who don't blink at paying more than $10 per day for lunch.<br /><br />The Juggernaut1981https://www.blogger.com/profile/09770878317522688714noreply@blogger.com