tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post6210634002098211247..comments2023-11-03T11:37:04.473+00:00Comments on nothing new under the sun: Divorce as amputation?byron smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-76652727890865504652007-09-12T13:37:00.000+01:002007-09-12T13:37:00.000+01:00Thanks anon, I agree that Martin makes a good poin...Thanks anon, I agree that Martin makes a good point about divorce being a recognition of what has already happened. Yet for those in the midst (or start) of marital difficulty, how can we convey the extremity of divorce? I'm the first to admit the image isn't perfect and it isn't what I'd say to someone who is already divorced, but as a way of trying to get the attention of a young Christian byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-37284047297697242442007-09-12T13:09:00.000+01:002007-09-12T13:09:00.000+01:00martin's points are excellent, as someone who has ...martin's points are excellent, as someone who has recently experienced divorce. unfortunately the amputation analogy has too many flaws to be useful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-61824071670366992042007-07-06T05:15:00.000+01:002007-07-06T05:15:00.000+01:00Karen - thanks for that! I must admit, my recent p...Karen - thanks for that! I must admit, my recent pastoral experience is of two marriage breakups/breakdowns, and in both cases it was only a few years old and there were no children involved. The tragedy only increases with children. However, while there are ways in which it may be usefully compared with death (I used to think that suicide was a better metaphor! I don't think so now), and indeed,byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-42048010104120700772007-07-06T00:56:00.000+01:002007-07-06T00:56:00.000+01:00Hi Byron,Sorry to revisit an old post/discussion, ...Hi Byron,<BR/><BR/>Sorry to revisit an old post/discussion, but I was reading this again today and thought it might be helpful for you in seeing the limits of your analogy. It's from <I>Second Chances</I> by Judith Wallerstein and Sandra Blakeslee. When no-fault divorce was adopted in America, Wallerstein began a study that went for 25 years which charted the effects of divorce on families. She /Karen/https://www.blogger.com/profile/00389055696706060170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-11825698117601705782007-06-25T16:06:00.000+01:002007-06-25T16:06:00.000+01:00I wonder whether its better to say divorce is like...I wonder whether its better to say divorce is like when the limb has already fallen off, and you're dressing the stump. I say this because I think Christianly divorce is advisable when for all intents and purposes the marriage has already ended, ie one spouse refuses to live with the other, or lives in a state which somehow denies their unity.<BR/><BR/>Amputation in the way you describe it just Martin Kemphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17908454108625787731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-30097912437157515122007-06-25T06:02:00.000+01:002007-06-25T06:02:00.000+01:00To say that divorce is the final solution to the p...To say that divorce is the final solution to the problem is a bit of a myth; if you read some of Judith Wallerstein's books, you'd see that many couples were deluded on that point—especially when it came to marriages which experienced domestic violence or other forms of abuse. Divorce often did not have the intended effect, and problems that existed in the marriage pre-divorce usually /Karen/https://www.blogger.com/profile/00389055696706060170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-38310609127155631992007-06-25T04:34:00.000+01:002007-06-25T04:34:00.000+01:00I donno. Emotionally, I believe people can get ov...I donno. Emotionally, I believe people can get over an amputation and move on with their lives. There is something in my interaction with those who have been divorce - particularly the women - that makes me think that full emotional healing will never occur aside from a miracle from our Lord. As he said, "if your right eye causes you to sin ...". Amputation is to be preferred.Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-4173430025226041252007-06-25T01:32:00.000+01:002007-06-25T01:32:00.000+01:00maybe like the separation of siamese (or p.c. con...maybe like the separation of siamese (or p.c. conjoined) twins then?!<BR/><BR/>as a former prosthetist, i also think the phantom pain adds to the analogy - there will be a continuing, ongoing pain after the separation. pain that ranges from a dull ache, to an intense, crippling agony.<BR/><BR/>and re mpj's point, scales measuring grief, list amputation as an equivalent grief level to divorce! psychodougiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11355975567290588909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-6870444231444037432007-06-23T23:03:00.000+01:002007-06-23T23:03:00.000+01:00"Amputation is losing part of yourself".Well, that..."Amputation is losing part of yourself".<BR/><BR/>Well, that's true of course. You're really saying both parties are potential amputees. I probably have too much experience with damaged limbs, gangrene and amputation to make it work for me. And am surrounded by divorcees.<BR/><BR/>I love analogies - love them. I am thinking this through and it has too many weaknesses for me to overcome its Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-76120085295976344242007-06-23T13:07:00.000+01:002007-06-23T13:07:00.000+01:00Hey Byron,Interesting thought. I developed a very...Hey Byron,<BR/><BR/>Interesting thought. I developed a very similar analogy about divorce in a recent post I wrote on my parents' separation (cf. http://poserorprophet.livejournal.com/111473.html). There are some things I like about the amputation analogy (the need for skilled help is a very good point to highlight) and some things that make me a little uncomfortable with it (i.e. imposing a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-43977192442826142892007-06-23T11:22:00.000+01:002007-06-23T11:22:00.000+01:00Anon #3 - As I said above, I did not intend to sug...Anon #3 - As I said above, I did not intend to suggest that the limb is the partner. If anything, I think it is the part of yourself that they have helped form. Amputation is losing part of your self.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-89538084943155750572007-06-23T10:55:00.000+01:002007-06-23T10:55:00.000+01:00I got rid of the gangrenous part and am all the be...I got rid of the gangrenous part and am all the better for it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-68902981815722892722007-06-23T08:23:00.000+01:002007-06-23T08:23:00.000+01:00I think it's an interesting comparison. Sometimes ...I think it's an interesting comparison. Sometimes the hardest part is knowing whether it's time to "amputate" or not - and in my experience people can refuse to do so on priciple, to the detriment of everyone involved. Rehab afterwards is very important, and usually forgotten.<BR/>Carlie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-55072452472189434362007-06-23T07:27:00.000+01:002007-06-23T07:27:00.000+01:00Anon - yes, they are all limitations of the image,...Anon - yes, they are all limitations of the image, but as I said, it is an analogy, which means that it is similar in some ways and dissilimar in others. Perhaps I should have been more explicit about the dissimilarities, but your three are a great start. I did not intend to picture the amputated limb as the partner.<BR/><BR/>MPj - <I>Grief is similar</I>. How so? Similar to what?byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-9444834809241483622007-06-23T07:13:00.000+01:002007-06-23T07:13:00.000+01:00HelloMany thanks for your blog which I visit regul...Hello<BR/><BR/>Many thanks for your blog which I visit regularly.<BR/><BR/>Your analogy succeeds on one point (is a last ditch, "no other choices left" procedure) but fails for me on a number of others.<BR/><BR/>1. The amputated part dies - it has no life of its own. Divorce leaves two living but injured parties.<BR/><BR/>2. Implies that the amputated part is the sole cause of the problem.<BR/><Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28189019.post-27764745121835837342007-06-23T06:49:00.000+01:002007-06-23T06:49:00.000+01:00I think it is a good one. Grief is similar.I think it is a good one. Grief is similar.michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.com