‘Where freedom has come near, the chains begin to hurt. Where life is close, death becomes deadly. Where God proclaims his presence, the God-forsakenness of the world turns into suffering. Thus the theodicy question, born of suffering and pain, negatively mirrors the positive hope for God’s future. We begin to suffer from the conditions of our world if we begin to love the world. And we begin to love the world if we are able to discover hope for it. And we can discover hope for this world if we hear the promise of a future which stands against frustration, transiency, and death.’
- Jürgen Moltmann, Religion, Revolution and the Future, 61-62.
Anyone can suffer. But only one who loves God, who loves God's good world, who loves neighbour for God's sake, can suffer not just in hope, but from hope.Twelve points for guessing the city.
These past couple of quotes have been excellent. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThanks - usually when I'm putting a high percentage of quotes up it means I'm trying to write something (as is the case now...).
ReplyDeleteThe best bit about your posting quotes on suffering is that they are born out of your looking death in the face. Whereas I only know the depth of real suffering as if by analogy. So theodicy remains an interesting intellectual exercise. One which you are helping me to overcome. Thanks mate, looking forward to what you are writing.
ReplyDeleteWOW! As big a Moltmann fan as I am, I missed that one. It blows me away.
ReplyDeleteByron, after several months, the book "What is this thing called science?" finally arrived. Your recommendation has been one of the most pleasant reads I have ever had. Chalmers knows a lot about mechanics (my specialty), so the discussions are easy for me to relate to.
ReplyDeleteI started as a cynic, but now wish more people would read it so that there could be a common discussion framework about science. The review is here if you get some time!
Is this the same as saying that it takes truth to uncover a lie?
ReplyDelete"(as is the case now...)"
ReplyDeleteAny pun intended?
Well, this time around was interesting to say the least... Do people wait to hear what you are writing, before responding to the quotes at hand?
ReplyDeleteI'm happy to admit that the previous two posts are notetworthy anomalies in our "statistical research". Lets see what happens next!
(This is fun!)
Looney - thanks, I'll have a look at your review. I think I mentioned when I recommended it that I had the privilege of being taught by Chalmers in what was (I think) his last semester before retirement.
ReplyDeleteCyberpastor - I don't think so, though it may be an implication of what he is saying.
Moffitt - you can hear whatever you like, I won't stop you...
Mik - I did post all three fairly close together and they (somewhat) similar things. That said, I do find that people respond to Moltmann quotes (he has a great way of putting things).
The quote is really good, and your summary is even better.
ReplyDeleteWow. That's a brilliant quote, I have to say. If only I'd had it in bible study last week because it sums up exactly what we were talking about!
ReplyDeleteThat's what really sucks about being a real christian (i don't mean the fake wimpy type you usually run across). You are required to love the world, and hope for the world, in spite of all the enormous suffering this causes. and god won't let you get away with stopping, either. He keeps on rebreathing that nasty old breath of life into you, insisting that you live and love and hope and thus suffer--she just won't leave you well enough alone in comfortable frozen numbness.
ReplyDeletePersephone - which passage were you looking at?
ReplyDeleteBen - as always, you put it so well. God our hope - God our torment.
Paris
ReplyDeleteMoffitt - it certainly looks like it. But no.
ReplyDeleteBarcelona?
ReplyDeleteNo.
ReplyDeleteMadrid?
ReplyDeleteYou're sure it's Spain? It might be. But it's not Madrid.
ReplyDeleteIs it Spain? Cadiz?
ReplyDeleteNot saying (not sure you need too many more hints at this stage - perhaps I will soon need to start treating you with the same strictness I have come to apply to Anthony... but first I'm still excited that someone is giving him a run for his money, so I'll just link to the discussion (not the image but the comments) here).
ReplyDeleteNot Cadiz.
I guess somebody needs to say Rome at this point. Allow me to be of service...
ReplyDeleteThanks for your servant-heartedness. Unfortunately, motives don't gain points when the answer is incorrect.
ReplyDeleteTurin?
ReplyDeleteNup - I've never been there.
ReplyDeleteSo where in Spain have you been :p
ReplyDeleteI've only been to one city in Spain. It has featured in a few points previously.
ReplyDeleteSo then it can't be Spain because the only Spanish city you've been to is Barcelona.
ReplyDeleteIf that's the conclusion you wish to draw, I won't stop you.
ReplyDeleteIt must be, if
ReplyDelete1. you've only been to one Spanish city.
2. I've guessed Barcelona on another post, and you gave me points for it, and
3. I said Barcelona here and you said no.
If that's what you consider logic, then I won't argue with you.
ReplyDeleteBerlin?
ReplyDeleteNope.
ReplyDeleteNew York. Wall St in particular has been suffering the results of misplaced hope a bit recently...
ReplyDeleteNope.
ReplyDeleteLet's try Venice this time...
ReplyDeleteKeep trying...
ReplyDeleteMilan...
ReplyDelete