Thursday, May 31, 2007

Moltmann on suffering from hope

‘Where freedom has come near, the chains begin to hurt. Where life is close, death becomes deadly. Where God proclaims his presence, the God-forsakenness of the world turns into suffering. Thus the theodicy question, born of suffering and pain, negatively mirrors the positive hope for God’s future. We begin to suffer from the conditions of our world if we begin to love the world. And we begin to love the world if we are able to discover hope for it. And we can discover hope for this world if we hear the promise of a future which stands against frustration, transiency, and death.’

- Jürgen Moltmann, Religion, Revolution and the Future, 61-62.

Anyone can suffer. But only one who loves God, who loves God's good world, who loves neighbour for God's sake, can suffer not just in hope, but from hope.
Twelve points for guessing the city.

39 comments:

Rob said...

These past couple of quotes have been excellent. Thank you.

byron said...

Thanks - usually when I'm putting a high percentage of quotes up it means I'm trying to write something (as is the case now...).

antman said...

The best bit about your posting quotes on suffering is that they are born out of your looking death in the face. Whereas I only know the depth of real suffering as if by analogy. So theodicy remains an interesting intellectual exercise. One which you are helping me to overcome. Thanks mate, looking forward to what you are writing.

Michael Westmoreland-White said...

WOW! As big a Moltmann fan as I am, I missed that one. It blows me away.

Looney said...

Byron, after several months, the book "What is this thing called science?" finally arrived. Your recommendation has been one of the most pleasant reads I have ever had. Chalmers knows a lot about mechanics (my specialty), so the discussions are easy for me to relate to.

I started as a cynic, but now wish more people would read it so that there could be a common discussion framework about science. The review is here if you get some time!

cyberpastor said...

Is this the same as saying that it takes truth to uncover a lie?

Moffitt the Prophet said...

"(as is the case now...)"

Any pun intended?

Mikhaela said...

Well, this time around was interesting to say the least... Do people wait to hear what you are writing, before responding to the quotes at hand?

I'm happy to admit that the previous two posts are notetworthy anomalies in our "statistical research". Lets see what happens next!

(This is fun!)

byron said...

Looney - thanks, I'll have a look at your review. I think I mentioned when I recommended it that I had the privilege of being taught by Chalmers in what was (I think) his last semester before retirement.

Cyberpastor - I don't think so, though it may be an implication of what he is saying.

Moffitt - you can hear whatever you like, I won't stop you...

Mik - I did post all three fairly close together and they (somewhat) similar things. That said, I do find that people respond to Moltmann quotes (he has a great way of putting things).

Jonathan said...

The quote is really good, and your summary is even better.

Persephone said...

Wow. That's a brilliant quote, I have to say. If only I'd had it in bible study last week because it sums up exactly what we were talking about!

Benjamin Ady said...

That's what really sucks about being a real christian (i don't mean the fake wimpy type you usually run across). You are required to love the world, and hope for the world, in spite of all the enormous suffering this causes. and god won't let you get away with stopping, either. He keeps on rebreathing that nasty old breath of life into you, insisting that you live and love and hope and thus suffer--she just won't leave you well enough alone in comfortable frozen numbness.

byron said...

Persephone - which passage were you looking at?

Ben - as always, you put it so well. God our hope - God our torment.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Paris

byron smith said...

Moffitt - it certainly looks like it. But no.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Barcelona?

byron smith said...

No.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Madrid?

byron smith said...

You're sure it's Spain? It might be. But it's not Madrid.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Is it Spain? Cadiz?

byron smith said...

Not saying (not sure you need too many more hints at this stage - perhaps I will soon need to start treating you with the same strictness I have come to apply to Anthony... but first I'm still excited that someone is giving him a run for his money, so I'll just link to the discussion (not the image but the comments) here).

Not Cadiz.

Anthony Douglas said...

I guess somebody needs to say Rome at this point. Allow me to be of service...

byron smith said...

Thanks for your servant-heartedness. Unfortunately, motives don't gain points when the answer is incorrect.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Turin?

byron smith said...

Nup - I've never been there.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

So where in Spain have you been :p

byron smith said...

I've only been to one city in Spain. It has featured in a few points previously.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

So then it can't be Spain because the only Spanish city you've been to is Barcelona.

byron smith said...

If that's the conclusion you wish to draw, I won't stop you.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

It must be, if

1. you've only been to one Spanish city.

2. I've guessed Barcelona on another post, and you gave me points for it, and

3. I said Barcelona here and you said no.

byron smith said...

If that's what you consider logic, then I won't argue with you.

Anthony Douglas said...

Berlin?

byron smith said...

Nope.

Anthony Douglas said...

New York. Wall St in particular has been suffering the results of misplaced hope a bit recently...

byron smith said...

Nope.

Anthony Douglas said...

Let's try Venice this time...

byron smith said...

Keep trying...

Matthew Moffitt said...

Milan...

byron smith said...

No.